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4. The fourth Chapter. Of Visions; and how, and how much God may be

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The fourth Chapter. Of Visions; and how, and how much God may bee knowne of men. Out of the booke of Iudges the 6. chapter, vers. 22.

1 NOw the place it selfe putteth vs in remembrance to speake some thing of visions, and in what sort and how much God may be séen of men. But least that this place should be passed ouer without either method or order, I will set foorth certeine distinctions, which I thinke to be néedfull. And first it is supposed, 2 that the knowledge of God is offered vnto the senses or vnderstanding: or else we thinke that it is granted by nature, either else by some prerogatiue and reuelation, beyond the course of nature. And besides this, the knowledge of the substance, nature, and (as I may saie) the verie essence or being of God, differeth from that which consisteth of tokens, arguments, testimonies, & signes of the presence of God. Lastlie, we are to speake either of that knowledge of God, which is expedient for this life; or else of that onlie, which is looked for in the world to come. Wherfore I will begin with the outward senses: & as touching the knowledge of them, thus I affirme: that the nature, substance, 3 and essence of God cannot be reached vnto by the senses. Forsomuch as those things which be perceiuable by the senses, haue no affinitie with God, but are a maruellous distance from him; and to saie the verie truth, the qualities which be of a certeine kind, and are numbered among things accidentall, doo stir vp the knowledge of the senses: wherevnto since that God, who is most pure, is not subiect, it is not possible that he should be knowne by the senses. And that this is true, it is vnderstood by the certeine experience, that euerie man taketh of his owne mind. For it is most certeinlie true, 4 that no man hitherto hath by his senses perceiued him, and yet the Anthropomorphites persuaded themselues, that God might be knowne by the senses; for they attributed vnto God a terrestriall bodie: but their opinion is vtterlie reiected. For the scripture beareth record, 5 that God is a spirit; and it maketh a manifest difference betwéene a spirit and a bodie, when our Sauiour saith; Feele and see, for a spirit hath neither flesh nor bones. 6 And there is no man but knoweth, that a mans bodie, and the parts thereof cannot consist, or be without flesh and bones. Further, the foolishnes of these men herby appéereth, in that there is not a bodie to be found that is absolutelie pure, simple, and vncompounded. For be it of as equal a temperature as may be, yet it hath parts whereof it is co~pounded: & that euerie composition is contrarie to the nature of God, the verie Ethnicke philosophers haue perceiued.

2 But let vs leaue these Anthropomorphites and speake of others, whom Augustine maketh mention of, in his epistle De videndo Deo, 7 to Paulinus. These men (as the scriptures beare record, and the true catholike faith confesseth) beléeue that GOD is altogither most pure, simple, and without bodie; but yet denie not, but that in that blessed state, which we hope for, the saints departed doo behold him with their eies: and therefore they saie, that we are deceiued, in that we wholie measure the state of the life to come, by those things that we sée commonlie doone and exercised here. Wherefore (saie they) although the dull eies of our bodie cannot discerne God, nor the angels, nor spirits; yet being once strengthened with that felicitie, they shall sée them, not by their owne proper nature or power; but they shall haue the brightnes of their sight so lightened, that they shall be able to reach to the verie essence of God. These men perhaps are lesse deceiued than the Anthropomorphites, but yet deceiued. For howsoeuer our eies are to be confirmed, when we shall be in our owne countrie in heauen, yet they shall euen there remaine eies, yea & bodilie eies shall they be, and therfore shall not go beyond the kind & largenes of their owne obiects. Indéed they shall then easilie indure a more persing and greater light, than now they are able to abide with their eies, 8 neither shall the sight of those colours hurt them, which now offend them, yet shall they not reach vnto the essence of God. For none of our bodies shall in that blessed resurrection be so disguised, that they shall either become spirits, or else surcease to be bodies anie longer.

Wherefore there is not so much granted, no not to the bodie of Christ, that after his resurrection it should passe into a spirit. For that had not béene to haue the bodie rise againe, but to haue it abolished. Therefore, they that thinke our sight shall be made so perfect, that it shall be able to perceiue the substance of God, doo nothing to the co~mendation therof, but doo in verie déed destroy it. The Anthropomorphites offend against the nature of God, bicause they cloth it with a bodie; but the other doo iniurie to the nature of man, in that they persuade themselues, that it shall not continue in the blessed resurrection. And so our opinion abideth true and in force, as well concerning this present life that we liue, as also touching the life that we looke for hereafter.

9 3 But thou wilt demand, what the patriarchs and prophets did then sée, to whom God, and his angels, (as we read in the scriptures) appéered diuers and sundrie times? I answer, that as concerning the outward senses, 10 they did onelie perceiue certeine similitudes, forms and shapes, which were somtimes offered them by God, and his angels, wherby they might testifie that they were present, and spake with those fathers, that they heard them, and warned them of things for their saluation. But as for the presence of God, or of the angels, and also their spéeches, & things by them signified, the sense it selfe perceiued not; but the mind and reason gathered by them those things, which the capacitie of the senses did expresse. Whervpon the Chalde paraphrast, where it is written in Exodus, 11 that God came downe vpon mount Sina, dooth not simplie set downe, that God himselfe came downe; but translateth it, The glorie of GOD. As if he should saie, that Certeine mightie and woonderfull tokens were there séene, by the which God testified himselfe to be present. Which thing, in like maner he dooth in the 6. of Esaie, where he writeth; 12 I sawe the Lord sitting vpon an high & loftie throne. And what maner shapes and similitudes these were, which betokened the presence of God, or the angels, it is easie to gather out of the holie scriptures.

To Moses there appéered a burning bush, 13 a cloud, a piller of fire, smokes, voices, thunders, flames, lightenings, the propitiatorie, the arke of the couenant, vrim and thumin, diuers forms euen of men, which either did, or spake somthing, or else after some maner of sort shewed themselues, either vnto the prophets, or vnto others. All these (I saie) were signes and tokens of the presence both of God, and of the angels, and offered themselues vnto the fathers, either sléeping or waking, to be perceiued of them. But somtimes the phantasie or imagination that is in men, was fashioned by the holie Ghost, 14 & help of angels, at the commandement of God, with such kind of similitudes and figures; whereby those things that God would shew, were no lesse expressed in the minds of those which knew them, than if they had béene offered to the outward senses.

4 Wherefore in expounding the prophets, it so falleth out, that we be manie times in great doubt, whether the thing they speake of were so outwardlie performed; or else rather whether it did so séeme to be doone in the mind of the prophet. And in some places, by the circumstances of the matter it selfe we are compelled to confesse, that it was but a vision: 15 as Ierom testifieth of Ieremies hose, which by Gods commandement he laid downe by a rocke at the riuer Euphrates, and left them there so long, 16 til they were rotten, which yet he was commanded to take & weare againe. And this vision happened while the citie of Ierusalem was sharpelie beséeged by the Chaldeans when as the prophet had not libertie to go to and fro to Euphrates. For at the same time, 17 when once he would haue gone to Anathoth, where he was borne, he was apprehended as he went out of the gates, and charged with trecherie. And euen so dooth the same Ierom affirme, that it was onlie doon by vision. Which thing is written in Ezechiel, 18 of the bread baked in oxe doong, and of his lieng manie daies all vpon one side. Herevnto may be added the cating of the booke, and such other like miracles, 19 which neither the nature of man, nor the circumstances of the matters and times suffered so to bée doone, as it is written.

And as for preaching or expounding vnto the people, that which the prophets had in their minds, a thing séene by phantasie or imagination was all one, and of as great force, as if it had outwardlie happened. But yet we must not flie to the visions of the mind, when the thing it selfe may be doon outwardlie. For since as it was in God to vse both waies, according to his owne pleasure, and as he thought it most fit and conuenient for vs, therefore he sometimes vsed the one waie, and sometimes the other. And yet in all these matters, mée thinks, that the iudgement of Ambrose is to be followed, who intreating of these visions saith, that They were such as the will made choise of, not such as nature framed: which maketh verelie against them, that thinke prophesieng to be naturall; as though such figures & shewes offer themselues to the outward senses of the prophets to be séene, or to the inward imagination or phantasie to be knowne by the power of the heauens, or by the influence of nature, or else by the temperature of humors. 20 For the will of God, or of an angel (saith Ambrose ) would those things, and made choise of them before other things; it was not the power of nature that framed them.

21 5 But here ariseth another doubt, not to be winked at; Whether God himselfe, vnder these images and forms, hath at anie time shewed himselfe? Or else, that onelie the angels appéered alwaies, who sometime dealt with the prophets, and spake to them in their owne name, and sometime in the name of God? There haue béene some, which said; that God himselfe neuer appéered, but that whatsoeuer was said or doone in those visions, was wrought by the angels in the name of God: and they doo affirme, that they haue certeine testimonies of the scriptures making for them, whereof one is in the Acts of the apostles, 22 where expresselie Steeuen calleth him an angel, which spake with Moses out of the bush: 23 and yet in Exodus he is named God. Againe Paule to the Galathians saith, that The lawe was giuen in the hand of a mediator, 24 by the disposition of angels. And no man doubteth, but that it is written in Exodus, 25 that the lawe was giuen by God. Wherefore they conclude, that it must be vnderstood, that GOD appéered not by himselfe, but by angels.

26 But séeing the essence or nature of God cannot be taken, either from the holie ghost, or from the sonne, (for both of them is by nature God) how can they maintaine their opinion, séeing it is expresselie read in the scripture, that the holie ghost descended vpon Christ in the image of a dooue? 27 If they shall saie, that it was an angel, and not a dooue that came downe, 28 they charge the scripture with an vntruth: but if they confes that the holie ghost appéered togither with that dooue, 29 what shall the let be, that GOD himselfe was not present with the fathers, in other types and similitudes also? This reason they can in no wise auoid, vnlesse they should run into a plaine heresie, (which I thinke they will not) in denieng the holie ghost to be God.

And looke what I haue alledged concerning the holie ghost, the same I may obiect as touching the sonne, out of the words of Paule vnto Timothe, the third chapter, where he writeth: Without doubt the mysterie is great; 30 GOD is manifested in the flesh, iustified in the spirit, &c. Moreouer the vniuersall church and true faith confesseth the word to be verie God, which appéered in the nature of man. And if so be he did this, (as without doubt, and vnfeinedlie he did) why may it not be said, that he did the like in the old lawe, vnder diuers forms and manifold likenesses? Trulie, 31 that which he bestowed vpon vs in this latter time was the greater thing: and that he which gaue the greater, is able to grant the lesse, we haue no doubt at all.

6 Peraduenture they will saie, that the holie scriptures set downe that to be beléeued, which was last deliuered: but that we read no where, that we ought so to thinke of that, which you will néeds haue doone in old time. If we marke well, the scriptures teach this also. For the sonne of God is called of the Euangelist, The word, 32 or ⟨…⟩: which we must not thinke to be doone of him in vaine; but bicause God is vnderstood to speake by him, whensoeuer the scriptures beare record that he spake. Wherfore so often as we read, that the word of the Lord came to this man or that, so often (in my iudgement) it is to be attributed to Christ our Lord, 33 the sonne of God: namelie, that God by him spake vnto the patriarchs and prophets. Which thing, least I should séeme to speake but to small purpose, I will alledge for this opinion the witnes and testimonie of a couple. The first is in the 1. of Iohn; No man hath seene God at anie time: and strait waie, by the figure of Praeoccupation, is added: The sonne, which is in the bosome of the father, 34 he hath reuealed him. For it might haue béene asked; If neuer anie man sawe GOD, who was then present with the fathers, when these heauenlie things were shewed them? Or who talked with them; when sundrie forms and images appéered vnto them, and dealt with them in the name of God? It is by and by answered; The sonne, which is in the bosome of the father, hee shewed (him vnto them.) He was the truest interpretor of the father amongst men.

The other place is in the twelfe chapter of the same gospell, where it is thus written word for word; Therfore could they not beleeue, 35 bicause Esaie said againe, He hath blinded their eies, and hardened their hart, least they should see with their eies, and vnderstand with their hart, and be conuerted, and I should heale them. This did Esaie saie, when he sawe his glorie, and spake of him. Those two pronounes ( His and of Him ) without all doubt haue relation vnto Christ. For a litle before, the euangelist had said; When he (namelie Christ) had doone so manie miracles in their sight, yet they beleeued not in him, that the saieng of Esaie the prophet might be fulfilled, &c. And to this opinion (which indéed is agréeble to the scriptures) Chrysostom, Ierom, Cyril, and Augustine doo consent. Moreouer, the words of the prophet Ose, which he hath in the 12. chapter, are thoroughlie to be weighed. For thus the Lord speaketh in that place; I spake vnto the prophets, 36 & I multiplied visions, and was reuealed in similitudes by the ministerie of the prophets. Hereof we gather, that from the beginning, there were not onelie similitudes giuen vnto the prophets, but that God himselfe also did speake vnto them.

37 7 But now are we to confirme by most euident examples, that the apparitions of God differed vtterlie from the visions of angels. First it is shewed vs out of the booke of Genesis, 38 that Iacob sawe a ladder which reached from the earth euen vnto heauen; by it the angels went vp & downe: and at the top of the ladder (to wit) in heauen, the Lord did stand, of whom Iacob receiued great and solemne promises. Hereby we gather (vnlesse we will be wilfullie blinded) that the angels were shewed after one forme, and God himselfe appéered in an other. The verie same thing also may we sée in Esaie, 39 when he sawe the Lord sit vpon his seate of maiestie, and two Seraphims with him, crieng one to another; Holie, Holie, Holie: which yéelded so great reuerence vnto GOD, who was betwixt them, that with their two vpper wings they couered their faces, and with their two nether wings, their féet. Who séeth not here a verie great difference of apparition betwéene God & his angels.

I speake nothing of Ezechiel, 40 that sawe angels vnder the similitude of liuing creatures, as of an oxe, of an eagle, and of a lion, which turned the whéeles about: but GOD himselfe he sawe placed highest of all in the likenes of the sonne of man. Of Daniel also 41 was séene the ancient of daies, vnto whom came the sonne of man: and he addeth, that thrones were there placed, and bookes laid open, and a certeine forme of iudgement appointed. After that, he maketh mention of angels; of whom he saith there were ten thousand, and ten hundred thousand present to minister vnto him. So we perceiue by this place, there was great difference betwéene God and the angels, which attended vpon him.

Besides these, there is a verie manifest place in Exodus, 42 when GOD being angrie with his people, refused to walke anie longer with them in the wildernes, lest he being prouoked by their sinnes, should vtterlie haue destroied them all. But yet he promised that he would send his angel with them; with which promise Moses was not contented, and said he would in no wise go forward with the people, vnlesse God also himselfe would go. And in verie déed at the length by praier and persuasion he preuailed, and according to his request, had God the conductor of his iournie. Wherfore how can these men saie, that God himselfe was present vnder those forms, but that the angels onelie were séene vnder such similitudes?

Further, let vs remember, that Moses besought GOD, (as we read in the same booke of Exodus) 43 that he might sée his face; whose request God for the incredible fauour he had vnto him, would not vtterlie gainesaie; when as he neuertheles would not grant him wholie that which he desired. Therefore he answered; Verelie thou shalt not see my face; bicause men cannot behold the same, and liue; 44 but my hinder parts, euen my back shalt thou see. What plainer testimonie than this can there be? Surelie God dooth here bind himselfe in plaine terms, to appéere vnto Moses in mans likenes: of which forme or image Moses should sée, not the face, but the backe; and that he performed faithfullie. For as God passed by, Moses sawe the backe of his image néere vnto the rock, and he heard the great and mightie names of God, pronounced with an excéeding cléere voice; which when as he perceiued, he cast himselfe prostrate vpon the earth, and worshipped. And it is not to be doubted, but that he gaue that worship vnto him, which is due vnto God alone. For séeing he beléeued him to be present, according to his promise, there can be no controuersie, but that he worshipped him, as being there trulie present. And doubtles, had not God béene verelie present at the arke and propitiatorie, 45 but had onelie willed the angels to answere such as had asked counsell of him, since he had commanded the Israelits to worship & call vpon him in that place, he should haue driuen them hedlong into idolatrie.

To these examples let vs ad that historie, which in the booke of Kings is mentioned of Micheas the prophet, 46 which prophesied before Achab the king of Israel, and said, that he sawe God, and an host of angels present with him; and that he heard God aske, which of them would deceiue Achab, and that one offered himselfe readie to becom a lieng spirit in the mouth of the prophets of king Achab. By this vision it is vnderstood, that there was a plaine and notable difference betwéene God and the angels, which appéered altogither vnto the prophet. Wherfore that gift, which God gaue vnto the fathers, must not be extenuated or made lesse than it was; and it must be granted, that he was present in verie déed, when he appéered, séeing we read that so it was done, and there is nothing to the contrarie, so far as can be gathered out of the holie scriptures: neither is the nature of God anie thing against it, but that it might be so. And it were not safe for vs, to attribute vnto angels all those things, that we read in the scriptures of such kind of visions. For so we might easilie slip into that error, to beléeue that the world was not made immediately by God, but by the angels at his commandement. 47 Let vs therefore confesse, that God was trulie present in those things, and that he shewed himselfe vnder diuers similitudes, as often as we heare the scripture either testifie or shew so much.

8 It remaineth that we answere to the places before alledged. As touching the place in the epistle to the Galathians, 48 I grant that the ministerie of angels was vsed in the giuing of the lawe. 49 For they were with God, when he spake; They brought foorth darknes, thunder, flames of fire, and lightenings; they prepared the tables of stone, and were manie waies diligent about God, while he was present, and talked with the people. Neither is it denied by the words of the apostle, that God spake, or gaue the lawe, as the words of the scripture doo testifie. Yea rather there haue béene that expounded, The hand of a mediator, not to be Moses, but the sonne of God himselfe: whether trulie, or no, I am not presentlie to discusse. 50 And as for that, which S. Steeuen saith (as it is in the Acts of the apostles) that an angel appéered vnto Moses in a bush, and spake vnto him; long answere néedeth not. For if by the angel, the sonne of GOD be vnderstood, all scruple is remooued.

9 But to the intent that those things, which I haue spoken of concerning this matter, may the more certeinlie and plainlie be vnderstood, me thinketh it is good to confirme them by the testimonie of some of the fathers. 51 Chrysostom in the 14. Homilie vpon Iohn saith, that Whatsoeuer the fathers of old time sawe, it was of permission, but not of that pure and simple substance of God. And he addeth; If they had séene that substance, they should haue séene euery part like an other; for as much as it is pure, simple, and not to be described: wherfore it neither standeth, lieth, nor sitteth in such wise, as was sometimes shewed vnto the prophets. Moreouer, he addeth, that GOD, before the comming of his sonne into flesh, exercised the fathers in such kind of visions & similitudes. And in that place granteth that, which we affirmed a little before, that the spirits created of God, such as be the angels and soules of men, cannot be séene with our bodilie eies. Wherefore it is much lesse to be beléeued, that we are able by our outward senses to attaine to the knowledge of God.

And least anie should thinke, that it is onelie proper to God the father to be inuisible, and not to the sonne, he alledgeth that saieng of Paule, that He is the image of the inuisible God. 52 And surelie, he should faile in the propertie of an image, vnlesse he were inuisible, as is he, whose image he is said to be. 53 Augustine also in his third treatise vpon Iohn saith, concerning Moses; Although it be said, that he talked with God face to face, yet when he made sute to God, that he might sée his face, (that is to wit, his verie substance) he could not obtaine it. And in the same place he addeth; He saw a cloud and fires, which were figures. And a little after, If they saie that the sonne was visible, before he was incarnated, they doo but dote. Manie other things besides these, dooth Augustine gather to the same purpose, in his Epistle to Fortunatus, out of Nazianzen, Ierom, and other of the fathers, which were ouerlong here to recite.

10 But yet will I here bring foorth a couple of arguments, which are woont to be obiected against those things, that I haue defined. We said at the beginning, that the essence of GOD cannot therefore be comprehended by sense, bicause his nature is not corporall; but all the ancient fathers séeme not to haue beléeued this: for Tertullian against Praxias writeth, 54 that God is a bodie; and diuers times he affirmeth ⟨…⟩he same in other places, yea and in his little booke De anima, he saith that our soules are bodies; and, which séemeth more strange, he laboreth to prooue the same by manie reasons. And in his booke De dogmatibus ecclesiasticis, the 11. chapter; Euerie kind of creature is declared to be a bodie; namelie, the verie angels. For there is nothing that filleth all things, as God dooth, but all things are described by places certeine; as appéereth by the soule, which is shut vp within his owne bodie.

Augustine in his booke Ad quod vult deum, 55 excuseth Tertullian in this sort, that by this word, bodie, he ment his substance, and that which God is in verie déed. As if he had therfore taught, that God is a bodie; least he should séeme to denie his essence: whereas the common sort thinke, that whatsoeuer is no bodie, is not at all. Notwithstanding in his booke De genesi ad litteram, he is confuted by this reason, that being at the length ouercome by the truth, he confesseth that euerie bodie is passible: for which cause, least he should make God passible, 56 he ought to haue denied him to be a bodie. Neither was there anie such necessitie, to applie himselfe so to the capacitie of the common people, that he should therefore speake falslie of GOD. Christian men are not so to be taught, that like senselesse grosse-heads (which sort of men euen Aristotle confuteth) they should thinke that there is nothing but it is a bodie; but they ought rather to haue their mind lifted vp, that studieng vpon GOD, they determine nothing beyond the rules of the scriptures. But vnto that booke De dogmatibus ecclesiasticis, we must not attribute more than is méete. 57 For it is ascribed to Augustine, but the learned thinke that it is none of his.

11 The other, which is somtime obiected, is an argument of the Anthropomorphites. 58 For they dispute, that therefore wée ought not to beléeue, that God is without a bodie, bicause the scriptures doo witnes, 59 that man was made after the image of God: which could not be, vnlesse hée had a bodie as one of ours. For else the image should haue no likenes of that thing whervnto it is compared. And they thinke moreouer, that the scripture is on their side; forasmuch as it dooth oftentimes ascribe the members and parts of mans bodie vnto God. 60 But Ierom (as Augustine in his epistle to Fortunatianus citeth him) scorneth that argument of theirs wittilie and learnedlie. If we allow this reason (saith hée) we may easilie conclude, that a man hath wings, bicause the scripture hath sometime attributed them vnto God, vnto whose image it is manifest that man was made.

61 These men should rather haue considered, that the image of God consisteth in holines, righteousnes, and truth, as Paule hath taught. Which thing if they had marked, they would not onelie haue remooued a bodie from him, but also haue withdrawne from their minds, all such grosse and carnall imaginations. Why doo they not as well saie, that God is a verie beare, a lion, or a fire; 62 séeing that Amos, and Moses, and the epistle to the Hebrues, doo so terme him. It is written in the 94. psalme, He that planted the eie, shall hee not see? And he that made the eare, shall not he heare? There (saith Ierom ) it should haue béene said: He that planted the eie, hath he not an eie? And he that made the eare, hath he not an eare? But it is not so said, least while thou musest vpon him, thou shouldest be deceiued, and imagin him to haue these kind of parts. 63 And the scripture, if sometimes it attribute parts or members vnto God, verelie it dooth it onelie to the intent it may helpe our weake capacitie; with the which although we cannot comprehend the substance of God, as it is, yet it laboureth, by the helpe of certeine speciall signes and shadowes, what it can, to make vs haue some knowledge of it. Wherefore members are by a verie profitable metaphor or translation attributed vnto God, that we by the due consideration of his qualities, might haue our minds godlie and faithfullie exercised.

And if so be that the Anthropomorphites had for that cause asseuered God to haue parts and members, as the scripture dooth, to helpe mans vnderstanding, they might haue béene excused, and not condemned: 64 but they were earnest, that it standeth so with the nature of GOD in verie déed; and therefore are iustlie and deseruedlie accused and condemned. But what shall we answere vnto the words of Paule, who concerning the beholding the nature of God in our countrie in heauen, saith; We shall see him face to face, 65 and so séemeth to grant vnto our face and eies the power to sée God, and after a sort to deuise a face for God himselfe. Augustine answereth, that There is a face also of the mind, 66 bicause Paule saith, We now behold heauenlie things bare faced, not with a vaile or couering; as it came to passe with the Iewes, when they spake vnto Moses.

12 But now that we haue thus finished and concluded these things, let vs brieflie set downe certeine other waies, whereby God is knowne. In the life euerlasting, 67 the saints shall knowe the essence of God, not by their senses; but by their soule or mind: bicause Iohn saith, When he shall appere, we shall see him as he is. And Paul testifieth the same thing, saieng: Now we behold him, as it were through a glasse, but then wee shall see him face to face. And the same thing is gathered of Christs owne words; Their angels doo alwaies behold the face of the father. 68 For in another place he taught, that the iust in that blessed resurrection, shall be as the angels of GOD. 69 Whervpon it is concluded, that we shall sée God as well, and no otherwise than the angels doo. Therefore, if they sée his face, we in like maner shall behold the same.

There is also another testimonie of Paule to the Corinthians: 70 Then I shall knowe euen as I am knowne. But no man doubteth, but that wée are knowne vnto God thoroughlie, and in euerie part of our substance: yet am I not persuaded, 71 that the saints shall thoroughlie and in all respects knowe the nature & substance of God, except so far as their nature and capacitie shall reach vnto. For things measurable doo in no wise comprehend that which is infinite and vnmeasurable: neither can the things created fullie and perfectlie comprehend the Creator. Wherevpon Chrysostom in his 14. homilie vpon Iohn, 72 Ambrose in his first booke vpon the first of Luke, and Ierom, as Augustine reporteth in the place before recited, doo denie that the angels sée GOD: which cannot simplie and absolutelie be vnderstood; séeing Christ saith, that They see the face of the father that is in heauen.

Wherefore the place must be vnderstood of the whole and perfect knowledge of God, in his nature and substance. Wherevpon it is said in the sixt of Iohn; No man hath seene God, 73 but he which is of God, he hath seene the father. Againe; As the father knoweth me, so I knowe the father. So that to knowe all the substance of God fullie and perfectlie, is granted onelie vnto Christ, who is God. Others also shall in verie déed sée the same; but yet according to their capacitie. But if thou aske whether all shall sée it equallie or no? Herevnto I will not answere at this time. For we shall haue another place to speake of the diuersitie or equalitie of rewards in our celestiall countrie.

74 13 But what shall we set downe concerning the state and condition of this life? Whether dooth our mind, while we liue héer attaine to the knowledge of Gods substance? No verelie. For it is written; Man shall not see me and liue. No man hath seene God at anie time. And Paule saith further, 75 that He cannot be seene, bicause hee dwelleth in the light that no man can attaine vnto. But this is not meant of euerie kind of knowledge. For it is granted vs to knowe God after a sort, while we are yet in this life. We must therefore account those things to be spoken of the essentiall & substantiall knowledge of God, as the schoolemen terme it. Neither is that anie thing against it, 76 that Moses is said to haue seene him face to face; which also Iacob said before him: nor yet that which is spoken of the same Moses in another place, 77 that God talked with him, as one fréend dooth with another. For these things are not spoken absolutelie, but by waie of comparison made with others; bicause those things which were reuealed vnto men in that age, concerning God, were knowne to those excellent men aboue all others. For it pleased GOD to shew himselfe vnto them, after a certeine exquisite & vnaccustomed maner, which he did not to others. And that this is the sense and meaning of those words, Augustine & Chrysostom doo thereby gather, for that when Moses desired to sée the face of God, it was denied him.

78 14 Now there remaineth, that we speake of that our knowledge of God, which we can possiblie compasse, while we are in this life. First the same (as we haue said) is naturall, 79 and that verie slender and obscure. Which Simonides knew verie well, who (as Tullie writeth) in his booke De natura decrum, being asked of Hiero king of Sicilia, what God was, he euer deferred his answere, bicause the more he did studie vpon it, the darker it alwaies séemed vnto him. 80 Wherfore Clemens Alexandrinus 50. stroma, alleging a reason why our knowledge of God is so difficult, saith; It is neither generall kind of creatures, nor difference, nor accident, nor subiect for accidents: and therefore not for vs to knowe, who comprehend such things onelie with our minds and reason.

The effects whereby the philosophers vsed to bring themselues to the knowledge of God, are far inferiour to his woorthines, strength, and power: and therefore it is but common and friuolous which they declare of him. And we giue him certeine epithets and properties, namelie; good, iust, wise, bountifull, and such like; bicause wée haue not more excellent things, nor more goodlie titles, that can be fitter or more agréeable vnto him. And yet are not these things in him in such sort as we speake them. For, as in simplenes of nature; so in goodnes, righteousnes, and wisedome, he is far otherwise, than men either can or may be said to be.

15 But besides this naturall knowledge that we haue of God, 81 that also offereth it selfe vnto vs, which consisteth of faith, and is reuealed vnto vs by the word of God. 82 This faith is not of our selues, (as it is said to the Ephesians) but it is the gift of God. For Christ saith; 83 None can come vnto me, vnles the father drawe him. Faith therfore gathereth plentifull knowledge of God out of the scriptures, so far as our saluation requireth, and the capacitie of this life admitteth. But yet (as Paule witnesseth;) This knowledge also is vnperfect. For we knowe now as by a view, 84 through a glasse, and in part. And although wée profit in this knowledge more and more while we liue, yet doo we not reach to the vnderstanding of the substance of God.

I knowe verie well, 85 that Augustine thought as touching Paule and Moses, that they had somtime séene the substance of God with their mind, while they liued here: but I should hardlie yéeld to him therein; forasmuch as I iudge those places of Iohn, of the lawe, and of Paule, which I alledged before, to be most plaine & euident. Whervnto may be added that which is in the 6. of Iohn; None hath seene the father at anie time. 86 He that is of God, he hath seene the father. And note, that whatsoeuer is said of the father in this place, the same is also true of the sonne, as concerning his Godhead. For, as I haue declared before, both out of Chrysostome and Augustine, the nature both of the father and of the sonne is inuisible. Neither maketh it anie matter to saie, as Augustine saith, that they sawe the nature & substance of God, not by the vse of their outward senses, but as it were rauished, and in a traunce, quite remooued from the vse of this life. These things are not gathered out of the scriptures; nay rather on the contrarie, we haue heard that it was denied vnto Moses, 87 to haue a sight of Gods countenance. Wherefore through the knowledge that co~meth by faith, we vnderstand what God and his louing kindnes towards vs is, as much as sufficeth for our assured and perfect saluation.

But among all these things, whereby we knowe God out of the scriptures, nothing is more excellent than is Christ himselfe. Wherefore Paule had iust cause to saie; 88 Doubtles it is a great mysterie, GOD is made manifest in the flesh, &c. And the Lord also said; Philip, 89 he that seeth me, seeth also the father. Also Paule said, that He knoweth nothing else but Christ, 90 and him crucified. And indéed God may be said to be made visible in Christ, 91 bicause he is ioined in one person with man. Wherefore they that sawe Christ, might auouch that they sawe God: and he that acknowledgeth & beholdeth him by faith, dooth sée a great deale more, than if he should sée Moses burning bush. Therefore it is written vnto the Colossians, that All the treasures of the wisedome and knowledge of God are laid vp in him. 92

93 16 But in marking thou shalt alwaies perceiue, that the fathers of old time, after they had once séene God, or any angels, were in excéeding great feare; and were so astonied, as they looked but for present death. And no maruell: for it was not vnknowne to them, what answere GOD made vnto Moses, when he desired to sée his face; Man shall not see me & liue. And Iohn the Baptist, as we read in the first of Iohn, said; No man hath seene God at anie time. And Paule vnto Timothie hath confirmed the same, saieng; No man hath seene God, nor yet may see; for he is inuisible, bicause he dwelleth in the light that cannot be come vnto. Which thing also both Gedeon and Manoa the father of Samson, 94 doo testifie. Iacob likewise after his nights wrestling, (wherein he thought he had contended with a man) when he perceiued it was an angel, marueled how he had escaped safe and aliue. I sawe the Lord (saith he) face to face, and yet my life is safe: as though hée could scarselie beléeue it might be.

95 Moreouer, the Hebrues, when the Lord came downe vpon Mount Sinai, to giue the lawe, were so dismaied with feare and trembling, that they said to Moses: Wee praie thee deale thou with God, least if he continue talking so with vs, we die euerie one. And with these places, that also maketh much, that is written in the same booke of Exodus, 96 euen when the couenant was made betwéene God and his people; and Moses had recited the same, and sprinkeled the people with the bloud of the sacrifices, and had brought the elders vnto the mount, where they sawe God sitting vpon a throne in great maiestie and glorie. But after that vision is recited, it is added: And yet did not God stretch out his hand vnto them. Which declareth, that it was a rare sight, and a strange, that men should sée God without all perill and danger of life. Wherefore euerie part of that is recorded, as doone by speciall prerogatiue.

97 Ierom also testifieth, that Esaie was slaine by the Iewes, vnder this colour; bicause he said, that he saw God sitting vpon his throne, as it is written in the sixt chapter of his booke. They cauilled with him, that it was but a lie, forsomuch as God cannot be séene of anie man that liueth, and therfore they vniustlie condemned him, as one that taught the people his imaginations, not that which the Lord had shewed him. These things did they deuise against that innocent prophet, when as they had no other cause to laie against him.

17 The like examples also are not wanting in the new testament, when the Lord reuealed to his apostles a certeine shew of his glorie & maiestie vpon mount Tabor: 98 he shone with excéeding great brightnes & light, & was wholie changed before them: with whom Moses & Elias were strait waie present, & the voice of the father was heard from heauen. These things, bicause they did manie waies excéed the power of mans sight, the apostles eies might not endure them: wherefore they fell prostrate vpon the earth, as if they had béene dead. Also Peter, 99 when at Christes becke he had fished, and caught an incredible number of fishes (for before that commandement hée had labored long in vaine) woondering at the strangnes of the thing, and perceiuing that God was in Christ, he was so afraid, that he said to him; I pray thee Lord depart from me: for I am a sinful man, and cannot abide the presence of the Godhead without perill. And Paule, when he would make relation, 100 how he was taken vp euen to the third heauen, where he learned such heauenlie things, as hée could not by spéech expresse vnto man, wrote: Whether in the bodie, or out of the bodie, I knowe not. Assuredlie he durst not affirme, that those things happened vnto him while hée vsed the bodie, and senses of this life. Wherefore it is euident inough, that Gedeon was not astonied without a cause.

18 But now I thinke if good to shew the reason, why the sight of God, or of the angels, dooth séem to bring present destruction vnto men. Peraduenture it commeth to passe, by meanes of the heauie masse of this bodie, 101 which (as the Platonists affirme) is vnto vs as a darke and shadowed prison, wherewith we are so hindered, that wée cannot perceiue the things which are heauenlie. If happilie we doo somtimes sée them, by and by we thinke the coniunction of our soule and bodie to be sundered, and that we shall die out of hand; and that therefore the sight of heauenlie things is propounded vnto vs, bicause the diuorce of the mind & of the bodie is at hand. Moreouer, 102 Aristotle in his metaphysicks dooth witnes, that the power of our vnderstanding, is so litle able to comprehend the things diuine, which in their nature are most cléere and manifest, that it may iustlie be likened to the eies of owles and bats, which cannot abide to looke vpon the brightnes of the sunne, or the light of the daie. They which thus iudge doo saie somewhat; but yet not so much as sufficeth for a plaine declaration of the matter. 103

The bodie from our first creation, was not therefore giuen vnto men, to be anie hinderance to our knowledge of God; nor yet to shut vp our soules as it were in a dark and blind prison. For so the goodnes of God should become guiltie, for making the nature of man bodilie and corporall. And that it is so, 104 it is to be prooued by the historie of Genesis, which testifieth, that God was verie familiar with our first parents, notwithstanding they had bodies. For he brought them into paradise, which he had planted; he shewed them the fruits wherof they might eate; and concerning other some, he made a lawe, that they should not touch them; and he set all liuing creatures before Adam, that he might call them all by what name he would. Wherfore the bodie was no let, but that our first parents might vse familiaritie with God. 105 But it was sinne, that remooued vs from the sight of God. From thence came vnto vs the darknes, blindnes, and ignorance in heauenlie things. For this cause are we transformed into moles, bats, and owles. Otherwise God, of his owne nature is most cléere, yea & the verie light it selfe, vnles the fowlenes of our sinne be set betwéene vs.

Perhaps thou wilt saie, it hath béen sufficientlie declared alreadie, that our blindnes springeth out of sinne; but it hath not béene shewed, what the cause is, that men be so afraid at the sight of God. Yes, herevpon dependeth all this matter: for men, bicause that by reason of their owne blindnes, they are swallowed vp with that heauenlie light, being guiltie in their owne consciences, doo flie from the iudge, no lesse mightie than iust. For they in such wise conceiue of the Godhead, that they knowe, that by reason of the purenes and righteousnes thereof, it can abide nothing that is filthie and vncleane. Wherefore they thinke, that to haue the presence of God, is nothing else, but to haue the iudgement prepared, and punishment deserued, presentlie to be laid vpon them.

106 For this cause our first parents hid themselues immediatelie after they had transgressed, and were so greatlie terrified at the voice of God, that straitwaies they decréed to shrowd themselues among the trées in paradise, which doubtles procéeded of a trobled conscience, séeing God in his owne nature dooth chéere men, and reuiue them, as the authour of all maner of comfort. Wherfore it is manifest inough, that these inconueniences & terrours haue fallen out not by anie fault of his, but by our owne default. Wherefore Iohn, 107 in the third chapter of his 1. epistle, giueth this wholesome admonition, that He which hopeth to sée God as he is, should prepare himselfe therevnto, by purifieng himselfe, euen as he is cleane and pure.

← 3. The third Chapter. Concerning · Contents · 5. The fift Chapter. Of Dreames; chieflie →

Footnotes

  1. Looke before cha. 3. art. 6. ↩

  2. Distinctions seruing to the question proposed. The nature of God is not knowe~ by the sense. ↩

  3. The nature of God can not be knowen by the senses. ↩

  4. The error of the Anthropomorphites. ↩

  5. Iohn. 4, 24. ↩

  6. Luk. 24, 39. ↩

  7. Augustine. ↩

  8. The eies of the bodie shall not attaine to the essence of God, neither here, nor in the life to com. ↩

  9. What the patriarchs & prophets sawe. ↩

  10. Looke in 2. Kin. 2, verse. 12. ↩

  11. Exo. 24, 16. ↩

  12. Esaie. 6, 1. ↩

  13. In what things God shewed him selfe to be present. ↩

  14. Prophets do somtime see things printed in their imagination, and sometimes see them outwardlie. ↩

  15. Ierom. ↩

  16. Ierem. 13, 1. ↩

  17. Iere. 47, 11. ↩

  18. Ezech. 4, 15. ↩

  19. Ezech. 3, 1. ↩

  20. Ambrose. The visions of the prophets were not natural. ↩

  21. Whether it were God at anie time or the angels that appeered. ↩

  22. Acts. 7, 30. ↩

  23. Exod. 3, 2. ↩

  24. Galat. 3, 1⟨…⟩. ↩

  25. Exo. 19, 18. ↩

  26. The Godhead of the sonne, and of the holie Ghost. ↩

  27. Iohn. 1, 23. ↩

  28. The holie ghost shewed himselfe in a dooue. ↩

  29. After in the 12. cha. art. 10, and 15. ↩

    1. Tim. 3, 16.
    ↩

  31. The sonne of God appered in verie humane flesh. ↩

  32. Iohn. 1, 1. ↩

  33. It was the word, or Christ that God spake by to the fathers and prophets. Iohn. 1, 18. ↩

  34. Ibidem. ↩

  35. Iohn. 12, 39, and 40. ↩

  36. Ose. 12, 10. ↩

  37. By examples it is shewed that God himselfe and also angels sometime appected. ↩

  38. Gen. 28, 12. ↩

  39. Esaie. 6, 1. ↩

  40. Ezech. 1. ↩

  41. Dan. 7, ver. 9, and 13. ↩

  42. Exod. 33, 1. ↩

  43. Exod. 33, 18. ↩

  44. Ibidem. 20. ↩

    1. Chr. 7, 1⟨…⟩.
    ↩
    1. Kin. 22, 19
    ↩

  47. God was trulie present so often as the scriptures testifie that he appeered. ↩

  48. Galat. 3, 19. ↩

  49. When God gaue the lawe, the angels ministred. ↩

  50. Acts. 7, 30. The angel that spake to Moses in the bush was the sonne of God. ↩

  51. Chrysost. ↩

  52. Colos. 1, 15. ↩

  53. Augustine. ↩

  54. Tertullian. ↩

  55. Augustine excuseth Tertullian. ↩

  56. The nature of God is without bodie. ↩

  57. A booke falselie ascribed to Augustine. ↩

  58. Anthropomorphites. ↩

  59. Gen. 1, 27. ↩

  60. Ierom. Augustine. ↩

  61. Wherein consisteth the image of God. Ephes. 4, 24. ↩

  62. Amos. 3, 8. and 5, 19. Deut. 4, 14. Heb. 12, 29. Psalm. 94, 9. ↩

  63. Why the scriptures doo attribute members vnto Christ. ↩

  64. Why the Anthropomorphites are condemned. ↩

    1. Co. 13, 12.
    ↩

  66. There is a face also of the mind as well as of the bodie. ↩

  67. The saints in heauen shall know the essence of God. 1. Iohn. 3, 2. 1. Co. 13, 12. ↩

  68. Matt 18, 10. ↩

  69. Matt. 22, 13. ↩

    1. Co. 13, 12.
    ↩

  71. The nature of God shall not wholie and in all respects be knowne. ↩

  72. Chrysost. ↩

  73. Iohn. 6, 46. ↩

  74. Whether in se~se or mind we knowe the essence of God in this life. ↩

  75. Exod. 33, 20 Iohn 1, 18. 1. Tim. 6, 16. ↩

  76. Deu. 34, 10. Gen. 32, 30. ↩

  77. Exod. 33, 11 ↩

  78. Before in the second chapter. ↩

  79. Our knowledge towards God is naturall & obscure. Simonides. ↩

  80. Clemens Alexandrinus. ↩

  81. The knowlege of God by faith. ↩

  82. Ephes. 2, 18 ↩

  83. Iohn. 6, 44. ↩

    1. Co. 13, 12.
    ↩

  85. Augustines opinion of Paule and Moses. ↩

  86. Iohn. 6, 46. ↩

  87. Exod. 33, 20 ↩

    1. Tim, 3, 16.
    ↩

  89. Iohn. 14, 9. ↩

    1. Cor. 2, 2.
    ↩

  91. God is said to be made visible in Christ. ↩

  92. Colos. 2, 3. ↩

  93. In Iudges 6, verse. 22. Looke In 2. Sam. chap. 24, verse. 18. The presence of God striketh a feare in the godlie. Before pla. 3, art. 9. Exo. 33, 20. Iohn. 1, 18. 1. Tim. 6, 16. ↩

  94. Iudg. 6, 22, and 3, 22. Gen. 32, 30. ↩

  95. Exod. 20, 19 ↩

  96. Exo. 24, 11. Looke in 1. Kin. 19, 11. ↩

  97. Esaie. 6, 11. Ierom writeth of Esaies death. ↩

  98. Matt. 17, 6. ↩

  99. Luke. 5. ↩

    1. Cor. 12, 3.
    ↩

  101. Platonists. ↩

  102. Aristotle. ↩

  103. The bodie was not giuen as to remooue vs from seeing of God. ↩

  104. Gen. 2, 15. and 19. ↩

  105. Sinne remooueth vs from the sight of God. ↩

  106. Gen. 3, 7, and 8. ↩

    1. Iohn. 3, 3.
    ↩

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