bread, shall receive health of soul and body?’ Sir, the bless- ^ ings promised unto Abraham, for all nations, are in Christ; and out of his blood we must feteh them, and his word is the bread, salt, and water of our souls. God hath given you no power to give, through your charms, such virtue unto unsensible ereatures, which he hath hallowed himself, and made them all clean (for the bodily use of them that believe) through his word of promise and permission, and our thanksgiving. God saith, If thou believe St John’s gospel, thou shalt be saved; and not for the bearing of it about thee with so many crosses, or for the observing of any such observances.’ s God, for thy bitter passion, roar they out by and by, what an heretic is this! I tell thee that holy church need to allege no scripture for them; for they have the Holy Ghost, which inspireth them ever secretly, so that they cannot err, whatsoever they say, do, or ordain. What, wilt thou despise the blessed sacraments of holy church, wherewith God hath been served this fifteen hundred years?’ (yea, verily this five thousand years, even since Cain hitherto, and shall endure unto the world’s end, among them that have no love unto the truth, to be saved thereby) thou art a strong heretic, and worthy to be burnt, And then he is excommunieate out of the church. If little flock fear not that bug, then they go Straight unto the king: And it like your grace, perilous people, and seditious, and even enough to destroy your realm, if ye see not to them betimes. They be so obstinate and tough, that they will not be converted, and rebellious against God and the ordinances of his holy church. And how much more shall they so be against your grace, if they increase and grow to a multitude! They will pervert all, and surely make new laws, and either subdue your grace unto them, or rise against you. And then goeth a part of little flock to pot, and the rest scatter. Thus hath it ever been, and shall ever be: let no man therefore deceive himself.
An answer to More’s Second Book
In the first chapter, ye may not try the doctrine of the spiritualty by the scripture; but what they say, that believe undoubtedly, and by that try the scripture!. And if thou
[1 “Where I” [More’s imaginary questioner in the dialogue] said]
find the plain contrary in the scripture, thou mayest not be- m. pope lieve the scripture, but seek a gloss and an allegory to make tried by ser: P ᾽ g g y ture But the them agree. As when the pope saith, Ye be justified by the scripture works of the ceremonies and sacraments, and so forth; and the judged by scripture saith, that we be justified at the repentance of the heart, through Christ’s blood: the first is true plain, as the pope saith it, and as it standeth in his text; but the second is false, it appeareth unto thine understanding, and the literal sense that killeth. Thou must therefore believe the pope, and for Christ’s doctrine seek an allegory and a mystical sense: that is, that thou must leave the clear light and walk in the mist. And yet Christ and his apostles, for all their miracles, required not to be believed without scripture, as thou mayest see John v. and Acts xvii, and by their diligent alleging of john v. scripture throughout all the new Testament. Fade And in the end he saith, for his pleasure, that we know- none can ledge that no man may minister sacraments but he that is sacraments derived out of the pope. Howbeit, this we knowledge, that iy but the no man could minister sacraments without signification, which ration.” are no sacraments, save such as are of the pope’s generation.
The Third Chapter
[n the third chapter, and in the chapter following, he uttereth how fleshly-minded he is, and how beastly he imagineth of God, as Paul saith, (1 Cor. ii.) “The natural man can- 1 cor. ii not understand the things of the Spirit of God.” He thinketh The natural of God as he doth of his cardinal; that he is a monster, pleased man savour when men flatter him; and if, of whatsoever frailty it be, men things that break his commandments, he is then raging mad as the pope is, and seeketh to be venged. Nay, God is ever fatherlyminded toward the elect members of his church. He loved Eph. i. them, ere the world began, in Christ. (Eph. i) He loveth
[that it was thought reasonable to believe the scripture, being God’s]
[own words, rather than the words of men, ye” [i.e. Sir Thomas More]]
[“proved that the common faith of the church was as well God’s own]
[words as was holy scripture self, and of as great authority; and that]
[no student in scripture should presume to try, examine, and judge the]
[catholic faith of Christ’s church by the scripture, but by the catholic]
[faith of Christ’s church should examine and expound the texts of]
[scripture.” Dialogue, B. π. ch. 1. Works, p. 178.]]
,, them while they be yet evil, and his enemies in their hearts, — ero they be come unto the knowledge of his Son Christ, and ere his law be written in their hearts; as a father loveth his young son, while he is yet evil, and ere it know the father’s law to consent thereto.
And after they be once actually of his church, and the law of God and faith of Christ written in their hearts, their hearts Dever sin any more, though (as Paul saith, Rom. vii.) the flesh doth in them that the spirit would not. And when they sin and of frailty, God ceaseth not to love them still; though he be angry, to put a cross of tribulations upon their backs, to purge them and to subdue the flesh unto the spirit, or to all-to break! their consciences with threatening of the law, and to fear them with hell: as a father, when his son offendeth him, feareth him with the rod, but hateth him not.
God did not hate Paul, when he persecuted, but had laid up mercy for him in store; though he was angry with him, to Scourge him and to teach him better. Neither were those nd things laid on his back, which he after suffered, to make satisfaction for his fore sins, but only to serve his brethren, and to keep the flesh under. Neither did God hate David when he had sinned, though he was angry with him. Neither did he after suffer to make satisfaction to God for his old sins, but to keep his flesh under, and to keep him in meekness, and to be an ensample for our learning.
The Fourth Chapter
In the fourth saith he, If the church were an unknown company, how should the infidels, if they longed for the faith, come thereby?’ Oh, whither wandereth a fleshly mind?—as though we first sought out God! Nay, God knoweth his, and seeketh them out, and sendeth his messengers unto them, and giveth them an heart to understand. Did the heathen, or any nation, seek Christ? Nay, Christ sought them, and sent his apostles unto them: as thou seest in the stories from the beginning of the world, and as the parables and similitudes of — the gospel declare.
And when he saith, he never found nor heard of any of
[1 All-to: altogether. ]]
4 av] ig THE SECOND BOOK. 113 us, but that he would forswear to save his life?: Answer; The more wrath of God will light on them that so cruelly delight to torment them, and so craftily to beguile the weak. Nevertheless yet it is untrue: for he hath heard of sir Thomas Hitton, whom the bishops of Rochester and Canterbury slew at Maidstone; and of many that suffered in Braband, Holland, and at Colen, and in all quarters of Dutchland, and do daily. And when he saith that their church hath many martyrs, let him shew me one, that died for pardons and purgatory, that the pope hath feigned; and let him take the mastery.
And what ado maketh he, that we say, there is a church that sinneth not, and that there is no man but that he sinneth! which are yet both true. We read, (1 John iii.), He that is born of God sinneth not;” and (Eph. v.), “Men, love your wives as the Lord doth the church, and gave himself for her, to sanctify her, and to cleanse her in the fountain of water through the word, and to make her a glorious church unto himself, without spot or wrinkle;” and (1 John i), “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and make him 9, liar, and his word is not in us.” M. More also will not understand, that the church is sometime taken for the elect only; which have the law of God written in their hearts, and faith to be saved through Christ written there also: which same, for all that, say with Paul, That good which I would, that do I not; but that evil which I hate, that do I: so it is not I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in my flesh;” and (Gal. v.), the flesh lusteth contrary to the spirit, and the spirit contrary to the flesh; so that,” these two fighting between themselves, ye cannot do what ye would:” for they never consent that sin is good, nor hate the law, nor cease to fight against the flesh; but, as soon as they be fallen, rise and fight afresh:—and that the church is sometime taken for the
[2 More makes his questioner say, that the reformers’ party hath]
[some that preach sometime, but ye will not suffer them; ye punish]
[them and burn them.” To which More replies, Nay, they be wiser]
[than so; for they will rather swear on a book that they never said]
[so,’ p. 183.] [8 See Vol. rm. p. 340. In the preface to More’s Confutacyon, he]
[gives a most scornful account of this meek reformer’s apprehension]
[and cruel death; calling him the devil’s stinking martyr.”] [TYNDALE, 11L] 8]
- -Vommon rascal! of all that believe, whether with the mouth only, and carnally without spirit, neither loving the law in their hearts, nor feeling the mercy that is in Christ; but either run altogether at riot, or keep the law with cautels and expo- Sitions of their own feigning, and yet not of love, but for fear of hell, as the thieves do for fear of the gallows; and make recompence to God for their sins with holy deeds.
He also will not understand, that there be two manner faiths: one, that is the faith of the elect, which purgeth them οὗ all their sins for ever: as ye see John xv., Ye be clean, saith Christ, by the reason of the word,” that is, through believing Christ’s doctrine; and John i, He gave them power to be the sons of God through believing in his name;” and John iii, He that believeth the Son hath everlasting life;” and a thousand like texts: and another, of them that be called and never elect: as the faith of Judas, of Simon Magus, of the devil, and of the pope; in whose hearts the law of God is not written, as it appeareth by their works.. And therefore when they believe many things of Christ, yet when they come unto the salvation that is in his blood, they be but Jews and Turks; and forsake Christ, and run unto the justifying of ceremonies with the Jews and Turks. And therefore they remain ever in sin within their hearts.
Whereas the elect, having the law written in their breasts, and loving it in their spirits, sin there never; but without, in the flesh. Against which sin they fight continually, and minish it daily with the help of the Spirit, through prayer, fasting, and serving their neighbours lovingly with all manner service, out of the law that is written in their hearts. And their hope of forgiveness is in Christ only; through his blood, and not in ceremonies.
The Fifth Chapter. And unto his fifth chapter I answer, By the pope the scripture is hid, and brought into ignorance, and the true sense corrupt. And by them that ye call heretics we know the scripture, and the true sense thereof. And I say, that the pope keepeth the scripture, as did the Pharisees, to make merchandise of it: and again, that the heretics be come out
of you, as out of the scribes and Pharisees came the apostles, and Christ himself, and John Baptist; and that they be plucked out of you, and graffed in Christ, and built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets.
And in the end, when he saith that the heretics be fallen out of Christ’s mystical body, which is the pope and his; I answer, that ye be a mystical body, and walk in the mist and will not come at the light; and the heretics be departed out of your mist, and walk in the clear light of God’s word,
The Sixth Chapter
In the sixth he saith, that the heretics be all naught, for they all perjure and abjure?, He yet saith untrue. Many abide unto the death. Many, for their weakness, are kept out of your hands. Many, for their overmuch boldness in their own strength, be delivered into your hands, and fall in the flesh, their hearts abiding still in the truth; as Peter and thousands did; and after repent, and be no less Christen than before, though ye have them in derision, unto your own damnation. And many, because they come to Christ for fleshly liberty, and not for love of the truth, fall as it becometh them under your hands, as Judas and Balaam; which at the beginning take Christ’s part, but afterward, when they find either loss, or no vantage, they get them unto the contrary part, and are by profession the most cruel enemies and subtilest persecutors of the truth. Look, Master More; and read, and mark well.
The Seventh Chapter
In the seventh he saith, that he hath holy saints and holy councils on his side. Name the saints, and prove it. Name the councils, and the holy prelates thereof. Thou shalt shew me none other popes or cardinals, than such as we have now; that will obey neither God nor man, nor any law made by God or man; but compel all men to follow them, strengthening their kingdom with the multitude of all misdoers.
He saith also, that good and bad worship saints; the good [2 “Now, quod I, all that are of that sort, if they happen to adventure somewhat and be spied, they will first perjure themselves, and after abjure their opinion; so that if their opinion were good yet were themselves naught,” p. 186.]
well, and the bad evil. How cometh it then that ye shew not the difference, and teach to do it well? I see but one fashion among all the popish. And finally he saith, he is not bound to answer unto the reasons and scriptures that are laid against them. It is enough, to prove their part, that it is a common custom, and that such a multitude do it. And so, by his doctrine, the Turks are in the right way.
The Eighth Chapter
In the eighth he saith, the saints be more charitable now than when they lived. I answer, Abraham was, when he lived, as charitable as the best: and yet dead, he answered — him that prayed to him, They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them.” And so have we, not Moses and the prophets only, but a more clear light, even Christ and the apostles; unto which if we hearken, we be saints already.
And to prove that they in heaven be better than we in ^ earth, he allegeth a text of our Saviour (Luke vii.), that the worst in heaven is better than John Baptist. Now the text is, He that is less in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.” We that believe are God’s kingdom. And he that is least (in doing service unto his brethren) is ever the greatest, after the doctrine of Christ. Now Christ was less than John, for he did more service than John!; and therefore greater than he. And, by their own doctrine, there was no saint in heaven before the resurrection of Christ. But what care they what they say, blinded with their own sophistry?
Moreover, cursed is he that trusteth in aught save God, saith the text; and therefore the saints would have no man to trust in them, while they were alive: as Paul saith (1 Cor. jii), What is Paul, save your servant to preach Christ? Did Paul die for you? Were ye baptized in the name of Paul Ὁ Did I not marry you to Christ, to put your trust in him?’ And again, Let no man rejoice” or trust in man,” saith he. — For all are yours, whether Paul, or Apollo, or Cephas; whether the world, life, death, present things, or things to come; all are yours, and ye are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.” If my faith be stedfast in the promises that I have in Christ’s blood, I need but to pray my Father in Christ’s name, and he
[1 So in C. U. L. ed. D. omits this clause. See Vol. 11. p. 232.]]
shall send me a legion of angels to help me; so that my faith is lord over the angels, and over all creatures, to turn them unto my soul’s health and my father’s honour, and may be subject unto no creature, but unto God’s word in our Saviour Christ only. I may have no trust therefore in the saints. If ye say, ye put no trust in them, but only put them in remembrance of their duty; as a man desireth his neighbour to pray for him, remembering him of his duty; and as when we desire our brethren to help us at our need; that is false, for ye put trust in all your ceremonies and all your holy deeds, and in whosoever disguiseth himself, and altereth his coat from the common fashion, yea, and even in the coats of them that be not yet saints after your doctrine.
If a priest said mass in his gown, would ye not rise against him and slay him; and that for the false faith that ye have in the other garments? For what honour can those other garments do to God more than his gown, or profit unto your souls, seeing ye understand nought thereby? And thereto in
the collects of saints ye say, Save me, God, and give me everlasting life, for the merits of this or that saint; every man after his phantasy choosing him one saint singularly to be saved by?. With which collects, I pray you shew me, how standeth the death of Christ? Paul would say that Christ died in vain, if that doctrine were true. And thereto inasmuch as ye say, the saints merit or deserve not in heaven, but in this world only, it is to be feared lest their merits be Sore wasted, and the deservings of many all spent, through our holy father’s so great liberality.
Abraham and the prophets, and the apostles, and many since, prayed to no saints; and yet were holy enough. And
[[? In the Roman breviary the collect for July 6, being the octave]
[of the festival of Peter and Paul, is as follows: Deus, cujus dextera]
[beatum Petrum ambulantem in fluctibus, ne mergeretur, erexit; et]
[coapostolum ejus Paulum, tertio naufragantem, de profundo pelagi]
[liberavit: exaudi nos propitius, et concede, ut amborum meritis ceterni-]
[tatis gloriam consequamwr. Qui vivis et regnas cum Deo Patre. In “The devotion and office of the sacred heart, &c., with exercises]
[for the holy sacrifice of the Mass,” Dublin, 1829, there occurs this]
[prayer: OO God, who hast vouchsafed to send the blessed Patrick,]
[thy confessor and bishop, to preach thy glory to nations, grant by]
[his merits and intercession, that what thou hast commanded us to do,]
[we may through thy mercy be able to fulfil through our Lord. Amen.”]]
when he saith, they could help when they were alive; that was through their faith, in believing the promise: for they had promises, that they should do such miracles to stablish their doctrine, and to provoke unto Christ, and not unto themselves.
And when he proveth that the saints be in heaven in glory with Christ already, saying, If God be their God, they be in heaven, for he is not the God of the dead; there de- he stealeth away Christ’s argument, wherewith he proveth the the… resurrection: that Abraham and all saints should rise again, and not that their souls were in heaven; which doctrine was not yet in the world. And with that doctrine he taketh away the resurrection quite, and maketh Christ’s argument of none effect. For when Christ allegeth the scripture, that God is Abraham’s God, and addeth to, that God is not God of the dead but of the living, and so proveth that Abraham must rise again; I deny Christs argument, and I say! with M. More, that Abraham is yet alive, not because of the resurrection, but because his soul is in heaven. And in like manner, — Paul’s argument unto the Corinthians is nought worth: for when he saith, If there be no resurrection, we be of all wretches the miserablest; here we have no pleasure, but Sorrow, care, and oppression; and therefore, if we rise not again, all our suffering is in vain? Nay, Paul, thou art unlearned; go to Master More, and learn a new way. We be not most miserable, though we rise not again; for our souls go to heaven as soon as we be dead, and are there in as great joy as Christ that is risen again And I marvel that iv. Paul had not comforted the Thessalonians with that doctrine, if he had wist it, that the souls of their dead had been in joy; as he did with the resurrection, that their dead should rise again. If the souls be in heaven, in as great glory as the angels, after your doctrine, shew me what cause should be of the resurrection?
And when he saith, Whether the saints do it themselves, or by intercession made to God, it maketh no matter, so we be holp;” it appeareth by his doctrine, that allis good that helpeth, though à man pray unto the devil, by whom many be holp. Now in Christ we have promises of all manner the help, and not in them. Where then is our faith to be holp [! That is, if I say. See in like manner and he be, p. 121.] i
by Christ, when we hope to be holp by the merits of saints? So it appeareth, that the more trust we have in saints, the less we have in Christ.
And when he bringeth in a similitude, that we pray physicians, though God can help us, and therefore we must pray to saints; it is not like. For they have natural remedies for us; which we must use, and not tempt God: but the saints have no natural remedies, nor promise of supernatural; and therefore it can be but a false superstitious faith. And where no natural remedy is, there God hath promised to help them that believe in him. And moreover, when I pray a physician or surgeon, and trust to be holp by them, I dishonour God; except I first pray to God, and believe that he will work with their doctrine and medicines, and so receive mine health of the hand of God. And even so, when I pray to man, to help me at mine need, I sin; except I complain first to God and shew him my need, and desire him to move one or another to help me; and then, when I am holp, thank him and receive it of his hand, inasmuch as he moved the heart of him that holp me, and gave him wherewith, and a commandment to do it.
JM. More:— Christ is not dishonoured, because that they which here preach him truly shall sit and judge with him.”
Tyndale:—That to be true the scripture testifieth; but what is that to your purpose, that they which be dead can hear us and help us? Howbeit, if M. More should describe us those seats, I am sure he would paint them after the fashion of my lord cardinals holy chair; as he doth God after the similitude of worldly tyrants, and not according to his own word. For they that be worldly, and fleshly minded, can but fleshly imagine of God, altogether like unto the similitude of worldly things.
AM. More:—The apostles and saints were prayed to when they were alive, and God not dishonoured.”
Tyndale:—What helpeth that your carnal purpose? I have answered you unto that, and many things more, in the Obedience?, and other places; against which ye reply not, but keep your tune, and unto all things sing cuckoo, cuckoo, We be the church and cannot err. The apostles had God’s word 1 for all that they did, and ye none: and yet many dis-
(2 Vol. 1. 288. seq.]
honoured God and Christ, for their false trust and confidence which they had in the apostles; as thou mayest see by Paul to the Corinthians.. — Then he breaketh forth into open blasphemy, and saith: -. that it behoveth us to pray unto saints, and that God will else not hear us, for our presumptuous malapertnessl.” So itis now presumptuous malapertness to trust in God’s word, and — to believe that God is true! Paul teacheth us to be bold to go unto God, and sheweth us good cause in Christ, why we so may, and that God would so have us. Neither is there any cause to keep us back; save that we love him not, nor trust him. If a man say, Our sins should keep us back:’ I say, If we repent and believe in Christ, Christ hath taken them away, and therefore through him we may be bold. And Christ said at his last supper (John xvi.), I say not that I will pray for you unto my Father, for my Father loveth you:” as who should say, Be not afraid, nor stand without the doors, as a dastard; but be bold, and go in to my Father yourselves in my name, and shew your complaints; for he now loveth you, because ye love my doctrine.” And Paul Β8 1} (Eph. i1), We have all an open way in through him, and are now no more foreigners, or strangers, but of the household of God.” Of God therefore we be bold, as of a for most loving and merciful father, above all the mercy of fathers. And of our Saviour Jesus we be bold, as of a thing that is our own, and more our own than our own skins; and a thing that is so soft and gentle, that lade we him never so much with our sins, he cannot be angry, nor cast them from off his back, so we repent and will amend. But M. More hath another doctrine, to drive us from God, and to make us tremble and be afraid of him.
He likeneth God to worldly tyrants, at whom no man may come, save a few flatterers, which minister unto them all voluptuousness, and serve their lusts at all points; which flat-
[1 Sith his pleasure is to have his saints had in honour and prayed]
[unto, that they may be for us intercessors to his high majesty, where-]
[unto ere we presume to approach, it becometh us and well behoveth us]
[to make friends of such as he hath in favor, he will disdain once to]
[look on us, if we be so presumptuous and malapert fellows that upon]
[boldness and familiarity with himself we disdain to make our inter-]
[cessors his especial friends.” More’s Dial. Works, p. 189.]]
terers must first be corrupt with gifts, ere a man may come at the king. Then he saith, “A man may pray to every dead man” That, methinketh, should be against the pope’s doctrine, and profit also: for he will have no man prayed to, until he have canvassed him, I would say, canonized him; and till God, or at the least way the devil, have shewed miracles for him.
Then he bringeth how one that was dead, and in the invisible purgatory, holp another that was alive, and in the visible purgatory?. This is a strange case, that a man there may help another, and not himself. And a more strange… case, that God heareth a man here for himself, being in his own purgatory, and helpeth him clean out, or easeth him if it be too sore: but and he be in the pope’s purgatory, God will not hear him for himself; and that because the pope might have somewhat to deliver him. And the strangest case of all is, that the pope is almighty there, and God can do there nought at all; as the pope cannot here in this purgatory. But because this is not God’s word, nor like God’s doctrine, I think it no damnable sin to believe it poetry.
Then, how ye may pray for them, and to them, till they be canonized,” and when they be canonized, to them only;” Nr then ye be sure that they bein heaven. By what token? I may be as sure by the canonizing, as I am that all the γάρ ich the pope confirmeth, be holy men; and all the in doctors, that he maketh, well learned; and that all the priests, which he anointeth, have the Holy Ghost! If ye say, Be-
[2 “Why, quod he, by that reason I might pray not only to saints,]
[but also to every other dead man! So may ye, quod I, with good]
[reason; if ye see none other likelihood but that he died a good man.”]
[7 X4. ibid.]]
[3 “So find we, as I remember, in the dialogues of St Gregory, that]
[one had help by prayer made unto an holy man late deceased, which]
[was himself yet in purgatory. So liked it our Lord, to let the world]
[know that he was in his special favour, though he were yet in pain of]
[his purgation.” Id. ibid.] [4 “Those, quod I, that be not canonized, ye may, for the more]
[part, both pray for them, and pray to them, as ye may pray for and]
[to them that be yet alive. But one that is canonized, ye may pray to]
[him to pray for you; but ye may not pray for him. And of every man]
[ye may trust well, and be seldom certain; but of the canonized ye may]
[reckon you sure.” Id. p. 190.]]
cause of the miracles; then do men wrong to pray for king Henry Henry of Windsor at Cambridge and Eton. For he, as men say, doth miracles. And also, if the miracles certify us, what needeth to buy the pope’s canonizing?
The Ninth Chapter
In the ninth he putteth no jeopardy to pray to him that bim is damned,” and to stick up a candle to him; nor I trow unto the devil thereto, if he might have a vantage by him!,
[1 “The name is not 50 very requisite, but that we may mistake it]
[without peril, so that we nevertheless have the relics of holy men in]
[reverence; but as for pig’s bones for relics, or damned wretches to be]
[worshipped for saints, albeit that, if it happened, yet it nothing hurted]
[the souls of them that mistake it, no more than if we worshipped an]
[host in the mass, which percase the negligence or malice of some lewd]
[priest hath left unconsecrate; yet is it never to be thought, though]
[such a thing might happen suddenly, that ever God will suffer such a]
[thing to last and endure in his church.” Id. p. 193.]]
p nq - THE SECOND BOOK. 123 persecution, that every man must hide himself, and keep his faith secret: and even in the houses of the evil kings, both of Jewry and also of Israel, he had good people, and that among the high officers, but secretly, as Nicodemus among the Pharisees. So that the very church was everywhere oft-times in captivity and persecution under their brethren, as we be under ours in the kingdom of the pope.
Then he putteth no jeopardy to worship an unconsecrated host But with what worship men should worship the consecrated, doth he not teach; neither the use of that sacrament, or any other; nor how aught may be worshipped; but teacheth only that all things may be worshipped, and sheweth not the right worship from the false.
Then he noteth Paul (1 Cor. i.), how he exhorteth us to agree only; but not on the truth or on the good, but only to agree a great multitude together. O this deep blindness! Did not Paul first teach them the true way? And did he not instruct them anew in the true way, and in the said epistle rebuke the false confidence that they had in men, the cause of all their dissension and all errors that were among them? Then he saith, The Jews had saints in honour, as the patriarchs and prophets.” We teach to dishonour none. But the Jews prayed to none.
More:— Christ rebuked not the Pharisees for garnishing the sepulchres of the prophets, but for that they followed the conditions of them that slew them.”
Tyndale:—Yes, and for their false trust in such works; as we do you. And ye, sir, think that ye deserve heaven in worshipping the saints’ bones; and be as ready to slay them that believe, teach, and live as the saints did, as your fathers were to slay them. Besides that, ye worship saints that followed Christ after the example of your holy cardinal; of whom I doubt not but that ye will make a God, in process of time also.
Then repeateth he, for forgetting, how Eliseus’ bones raised up a dead body.” That was to confirm his preaching only. For the Israelites, as wicked as they were, neither prayed to him, neither kissed his bones, nor offered, nor sticked up candles before him; which thing if they had done in the kingdom of the Jews, I doubt not but that some good king would have burnt his bones to ashes, as well as the brasen
The miracles serpent, that was as great a relic as dead bones. And, Christ one by the.. 9 prophessand shewed miracles at the finding of the cross.’ That was to toconfirm stablish the faith of Christ’s death, and that it should be a Bi memory of his death; and not that we should trust in the wood, as we do: for which false abuse the whole land,
where Christ did his miracles, is destroyed
Christ made Then he allegeth the woman that was healed through - whole, and touching of Christ’s coat; because we should worship it when Christ said, “her faith hath made her whole,” not in the coat, but in Christ. And the miracle was shewed, to provoke miracles — to the worshipping of the preaching, and not of the coat: were done.. for the con. though to keep the coat reverently in the memorial of the doctrine. ^ deed, to provoke unto the faith of Christ, were not evil of itself. And Paul, by your doctrine, sent his napkin to heal the sick, that men should shrine his snivelled napkin!, and
not to believe his preaching. The Tenth Chapter
and his worshipful doctrine?
[1 In this allusion to a shrined napkin, Tyndale makes the only remark he thought fit to bestow, on what More has described as follows in this same chapter: “Myself saw at the abbey of Barking besides London, to my remembrance about thirty years past, in the setting an old image in a new tabernacle, the back of that image being “all painted over, and of long time before laid with beaten gold, happened to erase in one place, and out there fell a pretty little door, at which fell out also many relies, that had lien unknown in that image, God wote how long. Among other were certain small kercheors, which were named there our lady’s, and of her own working. Coarse were they not, nor they were not large; but served, as it seemed, to cast in a plain and simple manner upon her head. But surely they were as clean, seems to my seeming, as ever I saw in my life; and were therewith as white, for all the long lieing, as if they had been washed and laid up within one hour. And how long that image had stand in that old tabernacle, that no man could tell; but they had in all that church none, as they thought, standen longer untouched. And they guessed that four or five hundred years ago that image was hidden, when the abbey was burned by infidels, and those relies hidden therein. And so the relies remained unknown therein, till now that God gave that chance that opened it.” p. 192.] [2 The tale which More has told, of a pilgrimage to the chapel of St Valeri, in Picardy, fills nearly two columns; and is too grossly indecent to admit of any allusion to its subject.]]
The Eleventh Chapter.
In the eleventh, he juggleth with this mystical term, latria. 1 answer, God is no vain name; but signifieth one that is almighty, all merciful, all true and good; which he that believeth will go to God, to his promises and testament, and not follow his own imaginations, as Master More’s doctrine teacheth.
He saith, that bodily service is not latria. No, but bodily service done and referred unto him, which is a spirit, is Idololatria.
He trusteth that men know the image from the saint.” I ask M. More, why God did hide Moses’s body and divers other? TheJews would have known that Moses had not been God, and that Moses’s bones had not been Moses. Andthey knew that the brasen serpent was not God; and that the golden calves were not God; and that wood and stone were not God. But, sir, there is ever a false imagination by. The world, because they cannot worship God in the spirit, to repent of evil, and to love the law, and to believe that he will help all need, therefore run they unto their own imaginations; and think that God, for such service as they do to images, will fulfil their worldly desires; for godly can they nought desire. Now God is a spirit, and will be worshipped in his word only, which is spiritual; and will have no bodily service. And the ceremonies of the old law he set up, to signify his word only, and to keep the people in mind of his testament: so that he which observeth any ceremony, of any other purpose, is an idolater, that is, an image-server.
And when he saith, If men ask women whether it were our lady of Walsingham, or Ipswich, that was saluted of Gabriel, or that stood by Christ when he hung on the cross? they will say, neither nother.” Then I ask him, what meaneth it that they say, Our lady of Walsingham, pray for me; Our lady of Ipswich, pray for me; Our lady of Wilsdon, pray for me?’ insomuch that some, which reckon themselves no small fools, make them rolls of half an hour long, to pray after that manner. And they that so pray, thou mayest be sure, mean our lady that stood by the cross; and her that was saluted thereto.
Then he rehearseth many abuses, and how that women sing songs of ribaldry in processions in cathedral churches;
unto which abominations yet our holy church, that cannot err, consents with full delectation. For on the one side they will mot amend the abuse; and, on the other side, they have hired M. More to prove with his sophistry, that the things ought not to be put down.
Then he bringeth in how the wild Irish and the Welch pray, when they go to steal; and asketh whether because they abuse prayer, we should put all praying down? Nay, M. More, it is not like. Prayer is God’s commandment; and where faith is, there must prayer needs be, and cannot be AWAy. Howbeit, things that are but men’s traditions, and all indifferent things which we may be as well without as with, may well be put down for their dishonouring of God through the abuse. We have turned kissing in the church into the pax! We have put down watching all night in the church ΟΠ Saints’ eves, for the abuse. And Ezekias brake the brasen xvii. Serpent (4 Kings xviii), for the abuse. And even so such processions, and the multitude of ceremonies, and of holy days too, might as well be put down. And the ceremonies that be left should have their significations put to them, and the people — Should be taught them. And on the Sundays God’s word should be truly preached: which if his holy church would do, all neither the Irish nor yet the Welsh would so pray; by which praying, and other like blindness, M. More may see that buzzing in Latin, on the holy days, helpeth not the hearts of the people. And I wonder that M. More can laugh at it, and not rather weep for compassion to see the souls for which Christ shed his blood to perish. And yet I believe that your holy church will not refuse at Easter to receive the tithes of all that such blind people rob, as well as they dispense with all false-gotten good that is brought them; and will lay the ensample of Abraham and Melchisedek for them.
The Twelfth Chapter
In the twelfth he allegeth that St Jerom and Augustine prayed to saints,’ and concludeth, that if any sect be one [1 A small image of the crucifix, which is handed from one to another to be kissed.]
[2 Cum talia vivorum solatia requiruntur, quibus eorum pius in suos animus appareat, non video quze sunt adjumenta mortuorum, nisi ad hoc ut, dum recolunt ubi sint posita eorum quos diligunt corpora,
better than another, they be the best I answer, though he could prove that they prayed to saints, yet could he not prove himself thereby of the best sect; nor that it were good therefore to pray to saints. For first, the apostles, patriarchs, and prophets were sure? to be followed, which prayed to none. And again, a good man might err in many things, and not be damned; so that his error were not directly against the promises that are in Christ’s blood, neither that he held them maliciously: as if I believed that the souls were in heaven immediately, and that they prayed for us, as we do one for another, and did believe that they heard all that we spake or thought; and upon that prayed to some saint to pray for me, to put him in remembrance only, as I pray my neighbour, and without other trust or confidence; and though all be false, yet should I not be damned, so long as I had no obstinacy therein: for the faith that I have in Christ’s blood should swallow up that error, till I were better taught. But M. More should have alleged the places where they prayed unto saints.
And then he allegeth against himself, that the miracles were wrought by God, to confirm his doctrine, and to testify that the preacher there was a true messenger. But the miracles that confirm praying to saints do not confirm God’s doctrine, but man’s imaginations. For there was never man yet that came forth and said, Lo, the souls of the saints, that be dead, be in heaven in joy with Christ; and God will ihat ye pray unto them: in token whereof I do this or that miracle.’
And when he triumpheth a little after, as though all were won, saying, If our old holy doctors were false, and their doctrine untrue, and their miracles feigned, let them come forth and do miracles themselves, and prove ours feigned:‘Sir, ye have no doctors that did miracles to stablish your
[eisdem sanctis illos tamquam patronis susceptos apud Dominum adju-]
[vandos orando commendent. Cum itaque recolit animus ubi sepultum]
[sit carissimi corpus, et occurrit locus nomine martyris venerabilis,]
[eidem martyri animam dilectam commendat recordantis et precantis]
[affectus. Qui cum defunctis a fidelibus carissimis exhibetur, ewm pro-]
[desse non dubium est iis qui, cum in corpore viverent, talia sibi post hane]
[vitam prodesse meruerunt.—August. Op. De cur. agend. pro Mort.]
[Tom. v1. col. 519. B. D.] [3 Sure, used for sa/.]]
There were worshipping of images, and so forth. Your doctrine is but neither qn, tne opinion of faithless people, which to confirm the devil tid miracles hath wrought much subtilty. And as for the miracles done shippingor ab saints’ graves, and at the presence of relics, as long as true “US miracles endured, and until the scripture was authentically received, [they] were done to confirm the preaching that such witches. ~~ saints had preached, while they were alive. And thereto, the miracles which witches do, we confound not with other miracles; but with scripture we prove them not of God, but of the devil, to stablish a false faith, and to lead from God; Whertre a8 your doctrine doth. And likewise where we can confound et forth, your false doctrine with authentic and manifest scripture, there nomiade need we to do no miracle. We bring God’s testament, confirmed with miracles, for all that we do; and ye ought to
require no more of us
ΓΕ And in like manner do ye first give us authentic scripture ponit, wr for your doctrine. If ye have no scripture, come forth and tures, come” preach your doctrine, and confirm it with a miracle. And miracles. then if we bring not authentic scripture against you, or confound your miracle with a greater, as Moses did the sorcerers
of Egypt, we will believe you
God’s word And when he speaketh of trial of miracles, what do ye stoneto try iO try your miracles, whether they be true or feigned? And “besides that, God’s word, which should be the trial, ye refuse, and do all that ye can to falsify it.
And when he speaketh of sects of heretics, I answer, that they which ye call heretics believe all in one Christ, as the the seta scripture teacheth; and ye in all things save Christ. And in almostimu. your false doctrine, of your own feigning without scriptureS — ye have as many sundry sects as all monks and friars and students in divinity in all your universities. For first, ere ye come to divinity, ye be all taught to deny the salvation that is in Christ. And none of you teacheth another so much as the articles of your faith; but follow almost every man a sundry doctor, and in the scripture his own brain, framing it after the false opinions which he hath professed ere he come at it. Mahomet’s 66 And when he saith, that God would soon utter! feigned prevailed miracles; I answer, God hath had, at all times, one or hundred — another to improve yours with God’s word And I ask
[1 Utter: expose.] [2 Improve: disprove.]
whether Mahomet’s feigned miracles have not prevailed eight hundred years? And your abominable deeds, worse than the Turks, testify that ye love the truth less than they. And unto them that love not the truth hath God promised, by the mouth of Paul (2 Thess. ii.), to send them abundance and strength of false miracles, to stablish them in lies, and to deceive them, and lead them out of the way, so that they cannot but perish for their unkindness, that they loved not the truth to live thereafter, and to honour God in their members. And when he saith, the heretics have no miracles; I answer, ‘ They need not, so long as they have authentic scripture.” And when he saith, God sheweth no miracles for the doctors of the hereties; No more he needeth not; for all they preach is the scripture, confirmed with miracles, and received many hundred years ago. And therefore God needeth not to shew miracles for them while they live, to strength their preaching. And to shew miracles for them when they be dead, to move the people to pray to them, and to put their trust in them, as ye do in yours, were to make them idols, and not saints,
And when he speaketh of miracles done in their churches in time of persecution; I answer, those were not the miracles of your church, but of them that believed the scripture and suffered for it, as the heretics do now. For ye had never persecution for your false doctrine, which ye have brought in besides the scripture, nor any that died for it; but ye persecute and slay whosoever with God’s word doth rebuke it. And as for your own miracles of which ye make your boast, ye have feigned them so grossly, throughout all your legends of saints, that ye be now ashamed of them, and would fain be rid of them, if ye wist how, with honesty; and so would ye of a thousand things which ye have feigned. And the cause why heretics feign no miracles, as ye do, is, that they walk purely, and intend no falsehood: and why the devil doth none for them, is, that they cleave fast to God’s word which the devil hateth, and can do no miracles to further it; but to hinder it, as he doth with you. Read the stories of your popes and cardinals, and see whether the devil hath not helped them unto high dignities. And look whether your holy bishops come any otherwise unto their promotions, than by serving the devil; in setting all Christendom at variance, in shedding [TYNDALE, π.} 9
blood, in bringing the commonwealth to tyranny, and in - teaching christian princes to rule more cruelly than did ever any heathen, contrary unto the doctrine of Christ.
And as for the Turks and Saracens, that ye speak of; I
ars
answer that they were Christians once, at the leastway for the most part. And because they had no love unto the truth, to live thereafter, (as ye have not,) God did send them false miracles, to carry them out of the right way, as ye be. Andas for the Jews, why they bide out, is only because they have set up their own righteousness, as ye have, and therefore cannot admit the righteousness that is in Christ’s blood; as ye cannot, and as ye have foresworn it.
And when he saith, In that they have miracles and the but heretics none, it is a sure sign that they be the true church, οὐ and the heretics not; had ye God’s word with your miracles, and the heretics’ doctrine were without, then it were true. — But now, because ye have miracles without God’s word, to
confirm your false imaginations, and they which ye call heretes have God’s word confirmed with miracles, five hundred years together, it is a sure sign that they be the true church and ye not, inasmuch also as Christ. saith, that the deceivers shall come with miracles; yea, and in his name thereto, as ye do. For when Christ saith, there shall come in my name, that shall say he himself is Christ; who is that, save your — pope, that will be Christ’s vicar, and yet maketh men to believe in himself, in his bulls and calves’ skins, and in whatsoever he listeth? And who be those false anointed, that shall come with miracles to deceive the elect if it were possible, save your pope with his gresiamus!?
And when he repeateth his miracles, to prove that the old holy doctors were good men in the right belief: I answer — again, that the doctors which planted God’s word watered it with miracles, while they were alive; and when they were dead, God shewed miracles at their graves, to confirm the same, as of Elias. And that continued, till the scripture was fully received and authentic. But ye cannot shew, nor shall, any doctor which, being alive, preached your false doctrine confirming it with miracles, as God doth his scripture.
Then saith he, God had in the old testament good men full of miracles, whose living a man might be bold to
[1 A mock Latin word, for we anoint
follow, and whose doctrine a man might believe, by reason of their miracles;’ and then juggleth, saying: If God should not so now, in the new testament, have doctors with miracles, to confirm their doctrine and livings, but contrariwise should bring to pass, or suffer to be brought to pass, with false miracles, that his church should take hypocrites for saints, which expounded the scripture falsely; then should he deceive his church, and not have his Spirit present in his church, to teach them all truth, as he promised them. I answer, God suffereth not his church to be deceived; but he suffereth the pope’s church, because they have no love unto the truth, to live after the laws of God, but consent unto all iniquity, as he suffered the church of Mahomet. Moreover, the gift of miracles was not always among the preachers in the old testament; for John Baptist did no miracle at all: the miracles were ceased long ere Christ. And asfor you, in the pope’s kingdom [ye] had never man that either confirmed God’s doctrine or your own with miracles. All your saints be first saints when they be dead; and then do first miracles, to confirm tithes, and offerings, and the poetry which ye have feigned, and not true doctrine. For to confirm what preaching doth St Thomas of Canterbury miracles? He preached never, nor lived any other life than as our cardinal; and for his mischief died a mischievous death. And of our cardinal, if we be not diligent, they will make a saint also, and make a greater relic of his shoe than of the others.
And of your dead saints let us take one for an example. Thomas de Aquino is a saint full of miracles, as friars tell?; and his doetrine was, that our lady was born in original sin. And Duns, doing no miracle at all, because, I suppose, no man wotteth where he lieth, improveth that with his sophistry, and affirmeth the contrary?. And of the contrary hath the [2 Plurium autem miraculorum gloria [Thomas Aquinas] claruit. Nam et puer ececum illuminavit, et mulierem a deemonio vexatam liberavit, et matronam sibi devotam in die paschs post preedicationem a sanguinis profluvio sanam effecit; aliosque plures adversis languoribus exemit.—Petr. Natal. Catalog. Sanctor. Lib. rr. cap. clxxxi. Argentin. ἡ In his Sacre Theologice sententiarum Qusestiones perutiles, Duns 1513.
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